- Jamaica Kincaid often writes about the longing for maternal love and a childish bewilderment with the adult world.
- She seems to hold resentment toward her mother and her homeland.
- Kincaid is outspoken.
- Girl's voice only appears twice within an enormous list of "how-to's"
- Some of the instructions involve social mores. One big question you might tackle is whether or not you think these mores are essential.
In addition to your own correlation, please relate/synthesize the following into a paragraph of at least 50 words:
1) Kincaid's unforgiving rage at both her mother and homeland
and
2) "Everything passes through the self"
42 comments:
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Jamaica Kincaid was born Elaine potter Richardson. She was an only child for nine years. When her brother was born her mother gave all the attention to him, and none to her because girls were seen as not as important. She was sent off to work in order to send money home to put her brothers through college. Instead she sent no money home and went on to make a life for herself and became a very sucessful woman.
Relate/synthesize
I believe that Kincaid wants to let everyone know that she isn't going to conform to societies moraes. She went against the tradition of her homeland and refused to put her brothers ahead of herself. She believed in herself and made a life that was hers and not one that had been chosen for her. She can't forgive her mother or her homeland because they did not believe in her or any other woman for that matter. I think that to become successful she had to rely on herself and all that mattered to her was what she thought of herself...Everything passes through self...no one else but herself, so it doesn't matter what society thinks, she does what she wants, because that is who she is, a nonconformist.
Basic Passage
"...and so to prevent yourself from looking like the slut you are so bent on becoming."
I think in this passage her mother is clearly belittling her. She is saying that no matter what she does she will still become a slut. Also in the last line of the story she says she is going to turn out like the kind of woman who the baker wont let next to the bread. She is basically saying I'll give you these tools to be a lady, but it doesn't seem to matter because you will still become a slut.
Correlate
Parents have a huge influence on their children. Words are very harmful and coming from parents they can be very damaging. My father is an alcholic, and even when he wasn't drunk he was still a horrible person to be around. He constantly told me and my siblings how stupid we were, that we were never going to amount to anything and that we were basically useless. No matter how hard we tried nothing was ever good enough for him. There were many other issues that were more severe but these words caused much damage. My brother and my sister have a drug problem, and even though I am semi-normal I still have times that I struggle with it. When you are told a certain thing over and over she start to believe it and you quit trying. I try everyday to make sure that I tell my children how smart they are and how proud I am of them. Parents should try as much as possible to build up their children not tear them down.
1) The tradegy is that her mother verbal abused her and that her mother had no faith in her because of the traditions of a country.
2) This could be a comedy if her mother apologozed and told her how proud she was of her success.
3) This story has no joy it seems like it is a huge source of pain for her.
Difficulties
I had none
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid:
Author:
She lived in a Caribbean island. She was the only child until about 9 years old. She had a rage against her mother but in the other sense she didn't want to hurt her mother's feelings. When she was about the age of 17 her mother sent her away to New York to work for her brothers to go to college. She was suppost to send the money she made back home and then return herself later on. She didn't send any money, nor return back to her family.
Relate/Synthesize:
"Everything passes through the self" this quote refers Kincaids writing about her life's story. From the time she was born all the way up too teenager she was taught how to do things for women from her mother. She was taught that mothers is always right and that her herself couldnot do any better.To Kincaid her mother's teaching was insulting and she wanted to prove everyone that she is wrong. All writers write form with in and usually things that were written comes from things that happened in the past. That is what it all tighs down too.
Basic Passage:
"this is how to make pepper pots; this is how to make good medicine for a cold; this is how to make a good medicine to throw away a child before it even becomes a child;"
Correlation:
In this whole story it seems that Kincaid's mother is teaching her daughter to be a servant girl(slut)and convience her that there is nothing better. Throughout the story i had doubts about if her mother seems to care about whether or not her daughter is turning into a slut but this passage proves to me that in her mother's mind she already had her mind made up that her daughter was already a slut. Her mother taught things to if I could say master or be prepared on what to do in certain situations. It seems to me that her mother is trying to brain wash her to let her think that the way that she was raised up to be. Now Kincaid has this rage that she knows her mother is wrong and she wants to prove her wrong. That she is not a slut, and she can make more with her life.
I can't relate to the passage personally but everyone has seen movies today that has that same type of principle. The parents has a child and throughout his life he was raised up a certain way because they had big plans for their child. the parent or parent's has planned for the child. They try to convience him or her that path the parents have them on is the better path, and what usually happens the child does the opposite what the parents want them to do to prove a point and show that they can do something better. That is basic life, be your own person.
1)Identify the cause of human suffering-Tradegy:
the tradegy is that her mother is trying to teach her daughter the life of a servant girl and not knowing herself that there is a better life outside her little box. Her mother herself is convienced that there is nothing better but there is.
2)How can thw tradegy be turned into a comedy?
the comedy would be if her mother was acually teaching her to be proper and Kincaid still has rage against her mother thinking that she doesn't mean well because she doesn't understand her.
3)Identify the cause of joy or happiness -Comedy:
I didn't find any joy or happiness. She is reflecting back on different parts of her life and feeling sad over those times that happened in her past.
Difficulty
What ever happened to her brothers?
How to conform
JAmaica Kincaid (Girl)
Jamaica Kincaid was born on the Caribbean island of Antigua, and now lives in Bennington, Vermont. Her work is known for its "emotional truthfulness" and "unforgiving rage". After a childhood of following orders Kincaid proves to be a true nonconformist.
Relate/ Synthesize
I feel Kincaid's "unforgiving anger" probally comes from the abandoment issues she delt with after no longer being an only child after nine long years. She was use to a solitary relationship with her mother and now she was the oldest of four and the only girl at that. She felt abandoned by her mother whos attention now was focused on the boys. Kincaid was pushed by her mother to conform to Antigua social ored in which women were seen and not heard. She was constantly accused of being nothing more than a common slut yet was exspected to provide for her brothers schooling.Being a strong willed women she decide she was the only one who cared about her and she was the only one who could pull her self out the soceity she lived. this is apparent throught her quote"Everthing passes through the self".After changing her name Kincaid finally detacted her self from the boppressions of her mother and homeland.
Basic Passage:
"But I don't sing benna on Sunday at all and neverin Sunday school"
In this passage you actually her Kincaid and not her mother. She her is showing that if you tell her she must do something she will not . She shows her brass as a women in a society that who would rather her be silent.
Correlation
I can relate to this passage because I am a very opinionated women my self and don't feel the need to sugar coat things. Honesty is always the best policy, sometimes you just have to know how to word things so not to insult the person but still be true to your own thoughts.
1. Kincaids suffering is her constant focus on her mothers negativity.
2. Could be a comedy if Kincaid returned home as a authority figure and rulled the men.
3. For Kincaid there is no joy except the fact she escaped them all.
Diff>
none
Jamaica Kincaid
“Let me be me”
Kincaid was born in the Caribbean island of Antigua, but she created a distinctive body of work that earned her much praise in the town of Bennington, Vermont where she lives now. Her work was admired from Susan Sontag and David Leavitt. Jamaica is an outspoken person who longed for maternal love. At the age of 17 she came to America to work as an au pair. Which lead to her moving to New York City, where she accomplished many things in her career.
Relate/synthesize:
I feel Jamaica thought the society wanted to run and control her life. Even her family wanted her to do certain things she was not comfortable doing. Her rage with her mother and homeland came from being discouraged. No one believed in her or gave her a chance to be different. Maybe all this had something do with the statement from an interview “I never think of the audience. I never think of the people reading. I never think of people period.” The phrase “Everything passes through self” could mean she wanted to say “F” what everybody else thought. All she cares about is herself and her own life.
Basic Passage:
“always eat your food in such a way that it won’t turn someone else’s stomach; on Sundays try to walk like a lady and not like the slut you are so bent on becoming; don’t sing benna in Sunday school;” “this is how to hem a dress when you the hem coming down and so to prevent yourself from looking like the slut I know you are so bent on becoming.”
Correlation
Some people in society talk to their kids like this now a days. Maybe not as rude or straight forward as Jamaica mother does. I feel that when a parent tries to tell their kids what to do and how to act in a bad way without being nice about it their kids will do the opposite. Like when a parent tries to tell a teenager what dress to wear to prom is an example of this. I think at some point and time the parent should let go and let the child make their own decisions about life. I think sometimes parents may say some things without thinking how it will affect or make the child feel. Since prom is such an important moment in teenagers lives parents don’t want to look back on the pictures and have others thinking about the fact that their daughter looked liked a slut, but maybe the child does not care about what others think. I feel Kincaid’s mother is just trying to make her a better person, but does not know how to be tactful about the fact. So maybe Jamaica takes some of things in a bad way. She feels her mother is trying to tell her exactly how and what to do with her life.
Human Suffering:
Jamaica feels her mother is trying to control her life that’s why she has so much rage built up inside.
Tragedy turned into comedy:
I don’t think it could be turned into a comedy, but it may make Jamaica feel better if her mother told her it is way to make her a stronger better woman and told her that she is proud of her success.
Cause or Happiness:
I don’t think there is any. Jamaica feels her mother is ruining her life.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid (Elaine Porter Richardson) was born during the 1940's in Antigua a Carribean Island that was or currently is under British control. Up until the age of 9 years old she held a very close relationship with her mother, and then her first brother was born. Anotehr brother would be born afterwards and when Kincaid was a teenager her mother send her to New York City to work and to send money back home so that her brother could afford to attend college in order to become doctors. However she did find work as a writer but never send any money back home or returned as a matter of fact. In her writings Kincaid expresses resentment towards her mother and the patriarchial society that she grew up in prior to her relocating to New York.
Relate/Synthesize
I find it quite ironic that Jamaica Kincaid writes about this resentment towards her home country of Antigua yet she changes her name after a country that was also once under British control. In addition the literal translation of jamaica is an indian term for isle with many springs so that means that she is not what society expected of her and that she had many springs that people were not aware of. This is true in the statement "Everything passes through the self." Everything you write reflects your past experiences." This shows that when you look at the reflection in water you see everything that has desposited there and the springs falling into the water since it is translucent you see the self passing through.
Basic Passage:
This is how you set a table for dinner;this is how you set a table for dinner with an important guest; this is how you set a table for lunch; this is how you set a table for breakfast."
I think that is passage not only relates to the culture of her time but also modern southern culture where for example if you want to join a sorority there is always these tips on how you are supposed to dress for this occassion, how to style your hair, the appropriate facial expressions, what is the right thing to say and the tone of voice. Also I think this passage is a reflection of what was the women's role, and the role of individuals in a society where you have the haves and the have nots.
Correlation:
This passage for one reminded me of I know this is going to seem silly but an episode of Oprah I watched. In the episode she discussed how when she was growing up in rural Mississippi her grandmother told her she was going to have to learn how to wash clothes a certain way so that when she worked for a "good set of white people" they would not judge her so much. Little was her grandmother aware that her granddaughter would become one of the most influential and richest people in the world because society at that time did not expect much from women let alone minority women. I can relate to this passage when I hear people say that things are not going to change and people will never change their racists attitudes. I believe that people can change if someone exposes them to what they don't know.
1. Identify the cause of suffering- The cause of suffering is her mother but her mother is reacting to the social norms of a patriachial society.
2. Can this tragedy be turned into a comedy- I don't think this could ever be turned into a comedy because she still holds resentment towards her mother and did not offer to tell the mother hey you know women can do other things besides get married have kids and clean house.
3. There is no joy what so ever in this story.
I had no difficulities with the story.
Be who you want to be:
Jamaica Kincaid
She grew up in the Caribbean island of Antigua. Kincaid was the only child until the age of nine. For those nine years she had a close relationship with her mother. After her brother was born her relationship with her mother fell apart. She was sent to New York by her mother to get a job and make money to send home so her mother could put her bothers in school. However, Kincaid ended up becoming the women she is today, and by doing things for herself and not others.
Relate/Synthesize:
I think that Kincaid has this unforgiving anger for her mother for how her mother was trying so hard to make the best life for her bothers, and how her mother didn't expect her to make much of herself. I also think that she had this anger for her homeland because of how they think of women. I think that the anger for her mother and her homeland has made her the woman she is today. Her quote says it best, "For me, everything passes through the self." She has learned to be the person she wants to be without caring what anyone thinks of her.
Basic Passage:
"This is how you set a table for dinner; this is how you set a table for dinner with an important guest; this is how you set a table for lunch; this is how you set a table for breakfast."
From this passage and all of the to do's she writes about, I get a feeling that her mother is teaching her all of this because her mother has her life mapped out for her. Kincaid I think is expected to become a house wife and take care of her husband and family. Her mother is teaching her all of this because this is what the women of the country are seen as being a house wife and working on keeping the house clean and neat.
Correlate:
I can relate to the passage because growing up I was taught how to clean the house and set the table, but I think that it is a parents way of giving their children some responsibility. My father was the one who stayed home and did all of the house work, while my mother was out making the money. One of the main reasons why I picked the passage is because we would set the table different when we would have guest over. When we would have guest over we would use nicer dish wear and we would put the salt and pepper on the table, but when it was just the family we would sometimes use paper plates and we never put the salt and pepper on the table.
Questions:
1) The tragedy would be how her mother was verbal abusive to her, and how she was not expected to make something of herself.
2) This could become a comedy if her and her mother would make up and are able to put the past behind them.
3) I don't think that there is much happiness in the story, Kincaid has gone through a lot of pain and hardships.
List of Do's & Don'ts
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Jamaica Kincaid was born in Antiqua in 1949. She currently resides and works as a teacher in Bennington, Vermont. She writes novels and short stories. Kincaid's writtings deeply reflect her painful childhood and her pursuit of an affectionate relationship with her mother.
Basic Passage
" Wash the white clothes on Monday and put them on the stone heap; wash the color clothes on Tuesday and put them on the clothesline to dry; don't walk barehead in the hot sun;..."
In this passage, the mother is giving her daughter helpful information. The mother is trying to look out for her daughter's best interests. By telling her daughter what to do and what not to do, the mother is trying to help her daughter stay on the right track and continue to be a decent, respectable person.The mother is also trying to teach her daughter to be a self-sufficient person.
Correlate
I can relate to this passage. My mom taught me how to do the laundry. She helped me to distinguish what clothes could be washed together and what clothes couldn't be washed together. She also told me when to put the clorox and fabric softner in. Also I can relate to the statement in the passage, " don't walk barehead in the hot sun..." When I was little ( and even now , whenever I go home) my parents and great aunt used to tell me all the time- particularly in the summer- to put a hat on my head when I went outside. Sometimes I did and other times I would be hard headed and wouldn't wear a hat. However, the times that I didn't wear a hat , I'd always end up having a very bad headache! So, I try to heed my family's advice and try not to take as they are ordering me or commanding me to do things, but that they are trying to look out for me.
Extra Correlation
I believe that when Kincaid made the statement, "For me, everything passes through the self", she was referring to the fact that she has 'found herself' or that she has found her true identity and purpose in life after the emotional hardships she has had to suffer. The whole loss of affection toward her mother and the hatred of her country has stemmed from the fact that in society in the early 20th century, women were basically raised by their mothers and subordinate or second-class citizens to men. I believe that the birth of her brothers which caused her to be ignored by her mother and society as a whole -because she was a woman-, and later being forcibly sent to a new country in order to financially support her brothers' education maybe led Kincaid to think about herself and what she wants and needs to do for herself. I believe that Kincaid just wanted to be free to do what she wanted to do without so many restrictions placed on her. Kincaid wanted to bascially be the "master of her domain"- or she wanted to find her own destiny and show society that she can do what she wanted to do. To me, Kincaid seems like a bold woman who doesn't care what people think or say about her; she's going to continue living her life the way she wants to.
(1). Identify the cause of human suffering- Tragedy
The mother doesn't seem to listen to her daughter. The mother just continues to give her list of do's and don'ts without listening to her daughter's voice or opinion, even when the girl interrupts her twice to tell her something.
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
This tragedy can be turned into a comedy if at the end of her list, the mother explains to the daughter that she is telling her these things because she loves her and that she is just looking out for her well being. The mother can also say that she doesn't believe that her daughter is " a slut" or ever will be one; she's just trying to explain that her daughter shouldn't dress indecently. Then, the daughter says that she understands and then they hug.
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness- Comedy
This passage doesn't have any happiness and joy.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Kincaid is very outspoken about her hatred for her mother and the country where she grow up. She was sent to the US to work and send money home so her brothers could go to school. She worked but didn't send any money. She became a well known writer.
Relate/Synthesize
Jamaica is mad at her mother for treating her brothers like they were better than her and that she would amount to nothing. When Kincaid says, "For me everything passes through the self," I think she means that things just keep going. Even things that hurt pass through her and she goes on.
Basic Passage
"this is how you smile to someone you don't like too much; this is how you smile to someone you don't like at all; this is how you smile to someone you like completely;"
Correlate
I think her mother is telling her these things so she will know how to get on someones good side and be able to get a job, instead of being the slut that her mother says Jamaica will become. If Kincaid was sent to the U.S. and was rude to every one she might not have gotten a job. I think her mother was doing this to help her although the mother could have done it in a more loving way. And because of the way the mother told her these things Jamaica resented her.
I think every one has to do this at some point in their life. Even if you don't like some one you sometimes still have to get along with them. For example: your boss and your teachers, especially if you want to get paid or pass a class.
Tragedy-- The cause of human suffering is the way Kincaid was treated by her mother.
How can this be turned into a comedy-- She could do the things her mother said and rise above her bitterness and become a better person.
Comedy--No comedy, but I think it is ironic that her misery has made her wealthy.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Kincaid grew up in Antigua and later moved to a rural town in Vermont. She enjoyed the solidarity and intimacy of being an only child until she was nine, when her brother was born. Her writings reflect the issues she dealt with concerning her mother.
Relate/Synthesize:
The first thing that I captured from this story was the commanding tone. It gives you an idea of how strict, and demanding mothers were to their children 20 years ago in Antigua. The relationship between the mother and daughter is distant because of the mother's empowerment over her daughter. The fact that the mother never uses nice tones or never uses the word "please", suggests that she is in complete control over her daughter. Kincaid is writing about her personal experiences and it is very obvious the resentment she feels for her mother and how she grew up. But I think this story represents a piece of history. Now a days, mothers would not be successful at raising their children that way because of the era we live in, which technology and equal opportunities. Children have stronger voices about the decisions in their own life that ever before. But the lack of say so by the parents has perhaps had a negative effect. The story, minus the extreme militancy, could be looked at as an example to follow, because even though the mother is controling and rigid, she is teaching her daughter about values and morals.
Basic Passage:
"but I don't sing benna on Sundays at all and never in Sunday school"
This passage is one out of only two that the girl spoke. This gives the idea of how meek and intimidated the girl is. The sentence, to me, represents the distance in their mother/daughter relationship, because after the girl speaks, the mother just ignores her and keeps talking.
Correlate:
Fortunately, I never had a mother as controlling as the girl's mother in the story. But I've seen friends that grew up miserable, and are still miserable, because of their parents. The whole story of the controlling mother reminds me of seeing those mother's in the mall or just out in public with their children on those leashes so their kids can't get away.
1.Cause of human suffering:
The girls mother, being so commanding and forceful, is tormenthing her.
2.How can it be turned into Comedy?
The girls mother could let her speak and ask her about her own opinions.
3.Identify cause of joy:
There is no joy.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Jamaica Kincaid was born in Antiqua with the name of Elaine Potter Richardson. When she was older she moved to America so she could work and send home money for her brothers to go to college. She never went home and became successful on her own instead.
Basic Passage
"Wash the white clothes on Monday and put them on the stone heap; wash the color clothes on Tuesday and put them on the clothesline to dry; don't walk barefoot in the sun; cook pumpkin fritters in very hot sweet oil."
Correlate
Throughout the story Jamaica's mother is telling her how to do everything but in a demeaning sort of way. This is the way Jamaica apparentily thinks of her mother. She only hears the things her mother tells her to do, never words of love or encouragement.
I can relate to this. Sometimes (or well, most of the time) I feel like everything that comes out of my mom's mouth are orders. 'Go fold the clothes, clean the kitchen, vacuum your room, don't forget this' etc. Also is seems like Jamaica's mother has already predestined her to be a slut. Maybe this is because she was a slut and therefore doesn't want her daughter to be any better than her. Ever heard the saying "People tell you can't do something because they couldn't do it." This relates to my life a lot. My mom always tells me that I will be in debt when I get older. She says that because she has always had a problem with it and thinks of it as being normal. Even though I tell her that I'm not (and even though I'm a finance major) she always comes back with a remark such as "What, do you think your smarter than me and your dad? Everyone goes into debt, you can't have nice things without it." I think it's unfair when people make sweeping generalizations like that. Just like Jamaica's mother did with her.
1) Kincaid's unforgiving rage at both her mother and homeland
I think that Jamaica has the rage against her mother because of how her mother treated her when she was younger. She didn't feel like it was fair her mother put her brothers before her. And who would? That's a horrible thing to do. Her mother did nothing but make her feel worthless. I believe she hates her homeland because of their perception of women.
2) "Everything passes through the self"
I think she was referring to her writing. Everything in her writing is based off of or influenced by personal experience.
Identify the cause of human suffering — Tragedy.
When her mother demeans her and doesn't let the daughter speak. The daughter tries to tell her that she's not like her mother thinks but the mother only cares about herself.
How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
I think the tragedy did turn into a comedy in real life when Jamaica got to leave the island and become successful on her own.
Identify the cause of joy or happiness — Comedy.
The story itself did not really have any joy or happiness.
Difficulties
None.
Comment on Celia Joy:
I agree with your interpretation of the passage you picked. Despite the mother being so hard her, she still means well and is just looking after her daughter's well-being. I also liked that you drew more into Kincaid's own life, very perseptive.
Jamaica Kincaid
Girl
Jamica Kincaid was born on the carribean island of Antiqua in 1949. The lyrical prose of her early short stories and novels eloquently describes the pain of adolescent longing for material love. Jamaica Kincaid has created a distinctive body of work that has earned her both praise and perplexity from her readers. She has also known to have problems with her immmediate family.
Relate/synthesize
Kincaid unwilling anger comes from her relationship with her mother and the place she was raised, which is Antiqua. She was angry at her mother because she valued her brothers more than her. Also, her mother actually expected her to give her hard earned money to her family, so that her brothers could prosper and go to college. Kincaid is angered at Antiqua, because society on that island, expected less of women than men. So I think she spent her whole life proving to her family and society as a whole that she would not conform to everyone standards. That is what I think the bitterness comes from. The statement "Everything passes through the self" represents Kincaid life. She made her own path to success, instead of following society's unwritten rule at that time. This statement touch me because it shows me that I could accomplish goals that society has boundaries on.
(Basic Passage)
This is how you behave in the presence of men don't know you very well, and this way they won't recognize immediately the slut I have warned you about.
I truly believe that this passage represents her mother's obsession of keeping up apperance and hiding who the daughter was. It also shows that her mother wants her to conform to society back in those time. Her mother is constantly demanding perfection and belittering her. And lastily, I think she is teaching her what it takes to be a lady back in those days.
(Correlation)
People is society want their children to become this respectful figure nowadays.For example, they constatly tell kids how to dress, act, say,or do certain things that would make society accept them. Parents sometimes don't realize that all this expectations and pressure could somehow backfire. Futhermore, It's all about reputation and appearance.
(Questions)
1. Cause of human suffering?
The girl's mother is being so demanding
2.How can this tragedy be turned into a comedy?
The girl's mother tells her that she doesn't expect her to do all those things.
3.Identify the cause of joy and happiness?
There is no happiness in this story
(Difficulties)
What happen to her brothers?
TITLE: Girl
BY: Jamaica Kinaid
BACKGROUND: Jamaica Kinaid grew up as an only child until she was nine years old. Jamaica was close to her mom until her first brother was born.When she was older, Jamaica changed her name in an effort to change her personality and her bounderies in society. She is also famous for hating happy endings.
BASIC PASSAGE: always eat your food in such a way that it won't turn someone else's stomach; on Sundays try to walk like a lady and not like the slut you are so bent on becoming; don't sing benna in Sunday school; you mustn't speak to wharf-rat boys, not even to give directions; don't eat fruits on the street--flies will follow you; but I don't sing benna on Sundays at all and never in Sunday school; this is how to sew on a button; this is how to make a hole for the button you have just sewed on;.
CORRILATE: In this begining passage, the girl is being taught basic house keeping skills, common ediquite, and some inapropriate rules for girls. I can somewhat relate to the passage because when I was younger, I was taught some of these skills even though I was male. For example: setting the table, and never singing or listen to secular music on Sundays. The difference between her and I is the way it was taught to us.
THE CAUSE OF HUMAN SUFFERING (TRAGEGY)?: The girls suffering in the story was her mothers constaint name calling and put downs. Her mother repeatedly called her the slut I know you are.
HOW CAN THE TRAGETY BE TURNED INTO A COMEDY?:The girl can turn her tragety into a comedy by overcoming all of her mothers put downs and becoming a successful woman for her time period.
THE CAUSE OF HAPPYNESS (COMEDY):
There wasn't any portral of happiness through out the whole story on the little girls part.
Slut
Jamaica Kincaid
She was born in Antigua which is a Caribbean island. She had two brothers that her mother wanted her to go off and work for so they could go to medical school. She did not like her mother and held strong resentment for along with her two brothers. They sent her to New York were she began to write literature because she refused to send money back for her brothers education.
Basic Passage:
This is how you behave in the presence of men don't know you very well, and this way they won't recognize immediately the slut I have warned you about becoming.
Relate:
This often how bad parents talk to their children. I just reminds me of one of my childhood friends who's mom use to talk to him like that. She would always tell him things that were negative and that he would one day be a bad guy and end up in jail. Think she kind of put it in his head that he couldn't do anything besides fail and that is just what he did. I further more think it so like many homes in America where the mother is miserable and likes to make the child miserable as well. If you are always being bombarded with idiotic ideas that your self worth is not worth anything at at all then it makes you feel that way about yourself and you can't do positive things.
Questions:
In this story the mother is what is causing the suffering and her resentment stems from her relationship with her mother.
This passage could become a comedy if at the end she stated and that's why I didn't become the slut I knew I was and made my mother proud.
The cause of joy in this passage to me is the fact that she escaped all these expectations her mother had for her. She did what she had to do and became successful because of her own will to power despite all her trails and tribulations.
Difficulty. I found no difficulty in this story.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Kincaid was born on the caribbean Island of Antigua, where she now lives and teaches. In her writing she mainly focuses on a longing for maternal love, because of the relationship she had with her mother. Kincaid's mother was controlling and her cruel behavior destroyed their relationship. Kincaid was used to support her brothers education by working in New York, and this is the main source of resentment toward her mother.
Relate/synthesize:
"Everything passed through the self" is Kincaids way of saying that everything she has accomplished has been done through herself and she doesn't give any credit to her family or any one else. She doesn't give any credit to her mother and it is almost a way for her to praise everything she has done without any help.
Passage"
"always squeeze bread to make sure its fresh; but what if the baker won't let me feel the bread?; you mean to say that after all you are really going to be the kind of woman who the baker won't let near the bread?"
Correlation:
From this passage I get the feeling that her mother was trying to challenge her. She kept telling her that she is bent on becoming a slut, but here the mother acts as if she wasn't supposed to accept that comment. Maybe her mother wants her to feel as if she should overcome this fact.I just don't feel it was a good way to try and lead her away from it by constantly calling her a slut. The daughter seems to eventually believe what her mother has been saying, and the mother becomes upset about it.
1. The cause of suffering comes from her mothers controlling abuse.
2. There is no comedy
3. No happiness
Difficulties
None
“No wire hangers!”
Jamaica Kincaid
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid, born Elaine Potter Richardson, finds an unending source of creative material. She is unforgiving toward what she sees as neglect from her mother. She was born in Antigua in 1949, and moved to America at the age of seventeen to serve as an au pair. She wrote. She left abandoned her family. She wrote. She could stand on her own feet. Today, she still writes.
Relate/Synthesize:
“Everything passes through the self.” Every past experience passes through the mind. The key is passes through. The self is not made to harbor emotions and perceptions like Kincaid’s rage at her mother. Just ask Joan Crawford. She had a controlling mother. Crawford became obsessive and crazy from harboring hatred. Hate and rage can corrupt or replace the self.
Basic Passage:
“…you mean to say that after all you are really going to be the kind of woman who the baker won’t let near the bread?”
Correlate:
I had a tough time relating to the source of her anger. She was ignored, and made to work in another country. She was asked to send money home. She was belittled. So what? She was not sold into slavery or prostitution. She was not beaten. She may not have been loved, but she was fed. No parent is perfect, and not all parents love their children. I have a younger brother who is considered the smart one in the family. My mom told me I would never be as smart as he, and should find a man to take care of me. She believed unintelligent women would not be able to care for themselves. We would not be the kind allowed near the bread. I do not hate my mom. The best “revenge,” is to live well.
Tragedy- The child will never be perfect/worthy in her mother’s eyes.
Change from tragedy to comedy- The child could believe in herself, and not the opinions of unworthy people have influence in her life.
Comedy- The child no longer cares for the mother’s opinion. Well placed sarcasm would be funny too.
comment on roberto:
I agree. The mother comes across as a militant dictator. Yet, at some point our parents no longer control our actions. At some point, the child will call the shots. The trick is to discount the verbal abuse, and remember the lesson worth learning.
“Girl”
Jamaica Kincaid
Biography:
Jamaica Kincaid was born in Antigua, a very conservative country controlled by England. Until the age of nine she was an only child, and she had a very close bond with her mother. After these nine years of a close relationship with her mother, her first brother was born, and eventually she had three. This ruined her relationship with her mother, and this is very evident in her writings.
Relate/Synthesize:
I am not exactly sure of why Kincaid had an unforgiving rage towards her mother. I realize that her mother trying to send Kincaid off to make money for her brothers was not the right thing to do but, that was a common thing in those times, not just something malicious her mother was trying to do. There must have been other things in the home besides that one factor that pushed her towards that rage. She had rage towards her homeland Antigua because they allowed the English government to impose their will on them. Kincaid’s phrase “Everything passes through the self” can be taken a few ways, but it has one central meaning to me. Everyone controls their own destiny no matter what race or gender they are. Kincaid believes this, and that is why she is such a strong willed person.
Basic Passage:
“This is how you iron your father’s khaki shirt so that it doesn’t have a crease; this is how you iron your father’s khaki pants so that they don’t have a crease;”
This passage along with the rest of the story is basically a “how to” manual for a lady to live.
Correlate:
Personally I cannot relate to this story or this passage because I am not a female, and my parents never treated me like this. Although I have seen girl’s parents who treat them like this and it is hard to watch. Many parents preach to their children, especially daughters, of the importance of pleasing others. These parents will teach their daughters how to do certain house chores that will keep their man happy. They will tell them to lose weight or do something different because, how are they supposed to get anybody else if they don’t. This way of thinking is so ignorant, because it is more important to be happy with you than to please others.
Questions:
Identify the cause of human suffering—Tragedy
The way this girls mother treats her is a very obvious tragedy.
How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
If the mother was teaching her daughter useful tools in life, instead of these ways in which she thinks a “lady” should act.
Identify the cause of joy or happiness—Comedy
I’m sure the mother gets some joy from teacher her daughter the way she thinks her child should be acting.
GIRL
Jamaica Kincaid
Kincaid was born in the Caribbean island of Antiqua as Elaine Potter Richardson. Her writing is grounded with autobiographical roots and this unforgiving rage against her mother and homeland. She moved to America and became a writer for VILLAGE VOICE and INGENUE. In 1973, she decided to change her name to Jamaica Kincaid.
Today she lives in Bennington, Vermont, still with an evil rage against her family.
Relate:
The quote: "For me everything passes through the self."
I think that her rage against her mother and homeland is an outcome of all the pain she took. At the time she was living with her family, I assumed she was very respectable and very obedient. So she was taking all of the mean comments and orders in and now that she is "free" she is passing it through her self as hate.
Basic Passage:
"is it true that you sing benna in Sunday school?; always eat your food in such a way that it won't turn someone else's stomach; on Sundays try to wald like a lady and not like the slut you are so bent on becoming ; don't sing benna in Sunday school;"
I think that her mom is a slut and that is why she keeps assuming that her daughter is "bent" to be one. I believe that back when her mom was that age she did all the wrong things that she is "correcting" her on.
Correlate:
I can relate to that, because now that my little brother is in high school, I will make sure he has taken his ACT/SATs early, because I waited so long to take mine. I make sure his GPA stays up because it took me forever to raise mine back up.
The cause of the girl's suffering is the verbal abuse she is recieving.
The tragedy could become a comedy if the girl would her mom a slut, and start calling her out on all the wrong things she had done.
The joy could be the fact of her mom actually taking the time out to teach her daugher how to be a lady, some parents, wouldn't even care.
Difficulty:
I had no difficulties.:)
Girl
Elaine Potter richardson was born in antigua in the late 1940s to a poor family and a controlling mother. during that time the common view on women was that they were worth very little, and could not aspire to anything more than what they were born into. When she was 17, she was forced to move to new york, work and send money home to her family. instead she began writing much to her families dismay. they were so dissapointed infact that richardson changed her name to Kamaica Kincaid. she also stated writing for the New York post, which is where her short story "Girl" materialized
relate/ synthesize
obviously gender roles did not fit well with Kincaid. she is truly discusted with the reality of her homeland, and her role as a "girl" within her family. this is the heart of her writing. The story seems to paint an overall feeling of her childhood. the entire story is her mothers crude lessons on reality, and absolutely no notion of free will. her homeland and her family was her prison, and resentment is all she has left from it.
basic passage.
this is how to hem a dress when you see the hem coming down and so to prevent yourself from looking like the slut I know you are so bent on becoming
Correlate.
for me there is no correlation to this passage thankfully. my parents were so encouraging when i was growing up, so it is hard for me to imagine these words coming from them, and how it would effect me. it reminds me of a show i watched last night about anorexia and bulimia. these poor girls were 80 lbs and still wanted to loose 40 lbs to get to their "ideal weight" for a few of them it was there own parents who told them they were fat. this was obviously traumatic, and was the cause for obsession about weight. i think when it is your own mother or father who degrades you, it must be the most horrible feeling, because when your young you never question what your parents say. what they say is the truth when your little. luckily kincaid realized she wasnt what society, and her mother made her out to be.
tragedy: her mothers controlling nature, and how it attempts to degrade her and feel she has no free will.
comedy: none in the story.
how can it be changed to a comedy?
by retaliting and becoming succesful. this would prove her homelands belief about women wrong.
questions
dont pick peoples flowers, you might catch something. what does this imply? is there symbolism?
I am commenting on jag2419's response:
I agree with jag2419's response, "the harsh way parents speak to their children." I have been in stores where parents are scolding their children in a mean way or calling them bad. I agree that the mother in the story is just trying 'to look out for her daughter's well being by trying to give her advice', but , just like jag2419's saying, 'she went about it the wrong way.'
This is a response to Rachel:
I do agree with your are saying about how her mother is trying to teach her how to do things to become a lady. I also agree that most girls love to learn how to do most of that stuff growing up...I know that I did. I like the point when you say that the passage is a little sexist against females, I do think that is how her mother was brought up and also that is why her mother is raising her that way.
"Remembrance"
Jamaica Kincaid was born in Bennington, Vermont where she now lives and teaches. The lyrical prose of her early short stories and novels describes the pain of adolscencent longing for maternal love and a childish bewilderment with the adult world of work and relationship, as well as, the natural world of death. Her work has been praised by the writer Susan Sontag for its "emotional truthfulness" and by the novelist and short story writer David Leavitt for its "potent imagination".
Relate/ Synthesize
Kincaid portrays in her writing that she has alot of anger towards her mother for always just reading a list off about how she should look, dress, act, and talk. This has truly scared her for life. She makes you feel like there was no mother- daughter relationship other than when she had to read off lists to her. She is so worried about what she thinks that she is not trying to understand her mother's viewpont at all. You just feel alot of sadness and anger during this poem, like her mother robbed her of her childhood or something. Also, she makes it seem as if her mother made her think women were nothing in society.
Basic Passage
"And this way they won't recognize immediately the slut I have warned you about becoming."
This quote shows that her mother was just trying to protect her from something bad happening to her. Almost like something bad had happened to her and she is trying to prevent her daughter from going through the same heartache as she did. She wasnt saying she is a slut, she was just trying to tell her that some men see women as just a piece of meat so she was trying to show her tough love. Kincaid is almost like completely hanging on her mother's every word and being too sesative about her mother trying to just be a mother. Every mother shows their love in a different way and this is her way of showing her love to kincaid.
Correlate
I really can relate to this passage. Alot of times my mom would tell me things and I would take them the wrong way and think she was just being mean or didnt love me, but really she was just trying to protect me from something bad from happening to me. Also, sometimes I would be really hard headed and do the opposite of what my mom would tell me and then I had to find out the hard way why she told me the things she told me. Alot like Kincaid, I would sometimes do my own thing and feel like my mom was being mean, but then come to find out my mom's way was much better.
1. The cause of her suffering is her mother and the angry and sad feelings she has inside about her mother and how they have affected her life, as a whole.
2. This tragedy could become a comedy if maybe she laughed about how mean she thought her mother was and then had like a list of "I told you so's"
3. There is not a whole lot of joy in this story. She seems so heartbroken and really affected by her mother's relationship with her.
In response to jag 2419: I really agree with the fact that you said that her mother is giving her a "list" of how to be , but just maybe her mother doesnt know how to go about telling her in a very loving way, instead she is very straight forward and harsh with her words but she really may not know any other way how to communicate with KIncaid.
comment on Incog-Negro:
I relate to your friends story completly. It is my story as well as my brother and sisters. When you are told over and over you will never amount to anything you tend to beleive it and it is very hard to ignore, especially when it comes from a parent. My sister and brother both have been to jail several times, I am the only one who managed to come out o.k., and there are still times that I struggle with it,I find myself being extremly hard on myself and over critical, it is a hard thing to get over.
In response to Addicted2Christ
"I think that her mom is a slut and that is why she keeps assuming that her daughter is "bent" to be one. I believe that back when her mom was that age she did all the wrong things that she is "correcting" her on."
I kind of agree with this. A lot of the lines in the story sound like the mother knows from personal experience. For example, when the mother instructs her how to give herself an abortion.
I can relate to this as well because my parents have always stressed to me that college was important. My dad never went to college and my mom didn't graduate so they stress it because they want me to learn from their mistakes and have a better life.
However, I think Jamaica's situation is a little different because her mom has already predestined Jamaica to be a slut, she sounds as if she doesn't expect anymore from her.
Comment to Chloe's passage:
I agree with her when she talking about how parents tell you that you can't do something because they couldn't do it. I think in every body goes through that with there parents one time or another. I can relate to that in a way with my parents because they both went to college and they think they know everything. I know they know a lot about life and it is good to take your parents word for it because sometimes they are right. They have been there. However, when it comes to doing something that one time in there life they have maybe tried or just didn't think they could of done it doesn't give the right to make a judgement on the child telling he/she cannot do it because If I made the mistake doing that than you would. Never know what can happen. They might be successful, especially if it comes to finding a job.
comment on celia loy
I agree that Kincaid's mother was trying to help her by looking out for her best interests. Although her mother could have done it in a more loving way and it probably would have meant more.
Lessons in Life
Jamaica Kincaid
She was born in 1949 on the Islands of Antiqua. She changed her name from Elaine Potter Richardson. In 1965,she was sent by her mother to Westchester, New York to work for her family and to send money back to them. She had such great resentment towards her mother and her family. She felt that now that she had changed her name that she was free to tell her stories, such as "Girl", "Wingless", and the main one that talked of her resentment towards her mother was, "The Autobiogrsphy of my Mother". Later in life, she did move on and marry and have two children. I believe that she has aleast put some of the resentment to rest.
Basic Passage:
"this is how you smile to someone you don't like too much; this is how you smile to someone you don't like at all; this is how you smile to someone you like completely; - p.2131
Correlate:
I look at this passage as though her mother is trying to teach her about having some form of tact, but it is also teaching her to be fake. Everyone puts on different masks. I have even caught myself smiling at someone even though there is some antomosity between me and that person. It is a learned expression and that is what her mother is trying to instill in her.
Relate/Synthesis:
Kincaid's rage towards her mother is quite understandable in my eyes. I have a mother that is just like hers. Nothing ever was good enough for her as far as I was concerned. Although my sister could do no wrong. I have never really had hatered towards my homeland, but I am sure that ther are many military men and women feel that they were betrayed by there country. I think that anything that happens in your life is what molds you into the person that you are.
Difficulties:
"On Sundays try to walk like a lady and not like the slut you are so bent on becoming. - p. 2130
If Kincad's mother truly wanted her to grow up to be a lady, why did she keep putting that in her head?
Idfentify the cause of human suffering:
Tragedy- The mother is trying to raise her children the best that she can, which is not in favor to her daughter.
How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
She takes the turmoil of her life and moves on, instead of letting it get her dowv.
Identify the cause of joy or happiness:
Her joy would be that she has over come her adversity in life with her mother and start a life of her own, with her own family.
Response to Jason:
I agree with him in that everybody makes their own destiny no matter what. That which does not kill us only makes us stronger and molds the person that we are.
Comment for Almond Joy
I agree that Kincaid has built up rage for her mother but I don't feel she wants to prove her wrong , more like open her eyes to a different way of life. Her mother probally wasn't trying to brain wash her, but just school her, if you will in how it was in that time to be a women in Antigua. Sometimes we're harder on the ones we love because we want to push them in the what we fill is the rigth direction. But who knows its all in how you look at things. There is always two sides to every thing.
Responce to almond joy. Kincaid's anger and rage towards her mother could probably stemed from all of her criticzm, corrections, and put downs about her. her mother ment well but she has a horible way of teaching.
Girl
Jamaica Kincaid
Jamaica Kincaid was born Elaine Potter Richardson On May 25, 1949. She lived with her stepfather, mother and brother until 1965 when she moved to New York. Her mother sent her to New York to get a job to send money back to Antigua for her brothers’ college education.
Basic Passage:
This is how you grow okra-far from the house, because okra tree harbors red ants; when you are growing dasheen, make sure it gets plenty of water or else it makes your throat itch when you are eating it;
Correlate:
Here the mother is giving the girl helpful tips about growing the okra and dasheen. Otherwise the girl would have to try to grow these things on her own and make mistakes and fail along the way. I think this shows that the mother actually cares for the girl because she is trying to teach her instead of just letting her figure it out on her own.
I can relate to this simply because of growing up. There are several daily tasks that have methods to them, like tying shoes or something, if you’ve never done it before or nobody with experience is there to help you then you will probably never finish.
Jamaica’s unforgiving rage towards her mother clearly stems from the birth of her brother. When it was just the two of them they probably had a very close relationship. For a young girl a relationship with your mother is very important, but the brother came along the mother focused her attention to him leaving Jamaica alone.
1) The tragedy is that her mother is being very harsh and blunt toward her.
2) This could be a comedy is the mother could explain her motives for being so rude towards her daughter.
3) The only cause for is that the mother is trying to help although she does it in a very weird way.
In response to randy:
I think this passage is a good way to explain how we all have to be polite even when we don't want to. My boss is probably the hardest person I have ever had to work with, but I still have to smile and be polite. My job helps pay for a lot of things and without that paycheck it would be hard to get by.
response to Lauren
I agree that her mother is trying to challenge her to not become a slut. This is the reason why I believe that her mother is given her all those instructions. I think her mother expects her to be what women was back in those days.
Response to partyfoul:
"Here the mother is giving the girl helpful tips about growing the okra and dasheen. Otherwise the girl would have to try to grow these things on her own and make mistakes and fail along the way. I think this shows that the mother actually cares for the girl because she is trying to teach her instead of just letting her figure it out on her own."
I agree with this comment. Every parent wants the best for their children and by teaching them to not mess up like how they messed
up. That's why I believe that her mom was a slut.
This is a response to Lauren:
What you a saying makes sense to me. Like I did not look at it in the way as her mother trying to make her accept what she was saying to her. Maybe her mother feels if she keeps saying that she will become a slut she will do the opposite like most kids in today’s society. Most of the time when parents keep saying one particular thing, we tend to want to the very opposite of what they keep saying for some reason.
in response to roberto.
i agree with what you said about the controlling militant nature of her mother, and how although the lessons were for her well being, they were still the cause of the resentment. and i also think the story is like a little piece of history. the way people from that generation including my mother describe their upbringing, all seem to be much stricter than the way kids are raised these days.
Comment on Rachel
I also feel like the mother is going over board with whole thing. In the passage Rachel said that girls eventually go on doing what they want to do and I would have to agree. I have a little sister and no matter what you tell her she still does what she wants to do.
In Response to Celia Loy
My Mom also gave me little tips on how to make life easier like writing a grocery list aisle by aisle so you wont spend 2 hours running around the store. Little tasks would be so much harder if we didnt have elders with experience to give us shortcuts.
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