A Woman Is Talking to Death
One
Testimony in trials that never got heard
my lovers teeth are white geese flying above me
my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands
we were driving home slow
my love and I, across the long Bay Bridge,
one February midnight, when midway
over in the far left lane, I saw a strange scene:
one small young man standing by the rail,
and in the lane itself, parked straight across
as if it could stop anything, a large young
man upon a stalled motorcycle, perfectly
relaxed as if he’d stopped at a hamburger stand;
he was wearing a peacoat and levis, and
he had his head back, roaring, you
could almost hear the laugh, it
was so real.
“Look at that fool,” I said, “in the
middle of the bridge like that,” a very
womanly remark.
Then we heard the meaning of the noise
of metal on a concrete bridge at 50
miles an hour, and the far left lane
filled up with a big car that had a
motorcycle jammed on its front bumper, like
the whole thing would explode, the friction
sparks shot up bright orange for many feet
into the air, and the racket still sets
my teeth on edge.
When the car stopped we stopped parallel
and Wendy headed for the callbox while I
ducked across those 6 lanes like a mouse
in the bowling alley. “Are you hurt?” I said,
the middle-aged driver had the greyest black face,
“I couldn’t stop, I couldn’t stop, what happened?”
Then I remembered. “Somebody,” I said, “was on
the motorcycle.” I ran back,
one block? two blocks? the space for walking
on the bridge is maybe 18 inches, whoever
engineered this arrogance, in the dark
stiff wind it seemed I would
be pushed over the rail, would fall down
screaming onto the hard surface of
the bay, but I did not, I found the tall young man
who thought he owned the bridge, now lying on
his stomach, head cradled in his broken arm.
He had glasses on, but somewhere he had lost
most of his levis, where were they?
and his shoes. Two short cuts on his buttocks,
that was the only mark except his thin white
seminal tubes were all strung out behind; no
child left in him; and he looked asleep.
I plucked wildly at his wrist, then put it
down; there were two long haired women
holding back the traffic just behind me
with their bare hands, the machines came
down like mad bulls, I was scared, much
more than usual, I felt easily squished
like the earthworms crawling on a busy
sidewalk after the rain; I wanted to
leave. And met the driver, walking back.
“The guy is dead.” I gripped his hand,
the wind was going to blow us off the bridge.
“Oh my God,” he said, “haven’t I had enough
trouble in my life?” He raised his head,
and for a second was enraged and yelling,
at the top of the bridge—”I was just driving
home!” His head fell down. “My God, and
now I’ve killed somebody.”
I looked down at my own peacoat and levis,
then over at the dead man’s friend, who
was howling and blubbering, what they would
call hysteria in a woman. “It isn’t possible”
he wailed, but it was possible, it was
indeed, accomplished and unfeeling, snoring
in its peacoat, and without its levis on.
He died laughing:........that’s a fact.
I had a woman waiting for me,
in her car and in the middle of the bridge,
I’m frightened, I said.I’m afraid, he said,
stay with me, be
my witness—”No,” I said, “I’ll be your
witness—later,” and I took his name
and number, “but I can’t stay with you,
I’m too frightened of the bridge, besides
I have a woman waiting
and no license—
and no tail lights—”
So I left—
as I have left so many of my lovers.
we drove home
shaking. Wendy’s face greyer
than any white person’s I have ever seen.
maybe he beat his wife, maybe he once
drove taxi, and raped a lover
of mine—how to know these things?
we do each other in, that’s a fact.
who will be my witness?
death wastes our time with drunkenness
and depression
death, who keeps us from our
lovers.
he had a woman waiting for him,
I found out when I called the number,
days later
“Where is he,” she said, “he’s disappeared.”
“He’ll be all right,” I said, “we could
have hit the guy as easy as anybody, it
wasn’t anybody’s fault, they’ll know that,”
women so often say dumb things like that,
they teach us to be sweet and reassuring,
and say ignorant things, because we don’t invent
the crime, the punishment, the bridges
that same week I looked into the mirror
and nobody was there to testify;
how clear, an unemployed queer woman
makes no witness at all,
nobody at all was there for
those two questions:......what does
she do, and who is she married to?
I am the woman who stopped on the bridge
and this is the man who was there
our lovers teeth are white geese flying
above us, but we ourselves are
easily squished.
keep the woman small and weak
and off the street, and off the
bridges, that’s the way, brother
one day I will leave you there,
as I have left you there before,
working for death.
we found out later
what we left him to.
Six big policemen answered the call,
all white, and no child in them.
they put the driver up against his car
and beat the hell out of him.
What did you kill that poor kid for?
you mutherfucking nigger.
that’s a fact.
Death only uses violence
when there is any kind of resistance,
the rest of the time a slow
weardown will do.
They took him to 4 different hospitals
til they got a drunk test report to fit their
case, and held him five days in jail
without a phone call.
how many lovers have we left.
there are as many contradictions to the game,
as there are players.
a woman is talking to death,
though talk is cheap, and life takes a long time
to make
right. He got a cheesy lawyer
who had him cop a plea, 15 to 20
instead of life.Did I say life?
the arrogant young man who thought he
owned the bridge, and fell asleep on it
he died laughing: that’s a fact.
the driver sits out his time
off the street somewhere,
does he have the most vacant of
eyes, will he die laughing?
Two
They don’t have to lynch the women anymore
death sits on my doorstep
cleaning his revolver
death cripples my feet and sends me out
to wait for the bus alone,
then comes by driving a taxi.
the woman on our block with 6 young children
has the most vacant of eyes
death sits in her bedroom, loading
his revolver
they don’t have to lynch the women
very often anymore, although
they used to—the lord and his men
went through the villages at night, beating &
killing every woman caught
outdoors.
the European witch trials took away
the independent people; two different villages—
after the trials were through that year—
had left in them, each—
one living woman:
one
What were those other women up to? had they
run over someone? stopped on the wrong bridge?
did they have teeth like
any kind of geese, or children
in them?
Three
This woman is a lesbian be careful
In the military hospital where I worked
as a nurse’s aide, the walls of the halls
were lined with howling women
waiting to deliver
or to have some parts removed.
One of the big private rooms contained
the general’s wife, who needed
a wart taken off her nose.
we were instructed to give her special attention
not because of her wart or her nose
but because of her husband, the general.
As many women as men die, and that’s a fact.
At work there was one friendly patient, already
claimed, a young woman burnt apart with X-ray,
she had long white tubes instead of openings;
rectum, bladder, vagina—I combed her hair, it
was my job, but she took care of me as if
nobody’s touch could spoil her.
ho ho death, ho death
have you seen the twinkle in the dead woman’s eye?
When you are a nurse’s aide
someone suddenly notices you
and yells about the patient’s bed,
and tears the sheets apart so you
can do it over, and over
while the patient waits
doubled over in her pain
for you to make the bed again
and no one ever looks at you,
only at what you do not do
Here, general, hold this soldier’s bed pan
for a moment, hold it for a year—
then we’ll promote you to making his bed.
we believe you wouldn’t make such messes
if you had to clean up after them.
that’s a fantasy.this woman is a lesbian, be careful.
When I was arrested and being thrown out
of the military, the order went out: dont anybody
speak to this woman, and for those three
long months, almost nobody did; the dayroom, when
I entered it, fell silent til I had gone; they
were afraid, they knew the wind would blow
them over the rail, the cops would come,
the water would run into their lungs.
Everything I touched
was spoiled. They were my lovers, those
women, but nobody had taught us how to swim.
I drowned, I took 3 or 4 others down
when I signed the confession of what we
had done together.
No one will ever speak to me again.
I read this somewhere; I wasn’t there:
in WW II the US army had invented some floating
amphibian tanks, and took them over to
the coast of Europe to unload them,
the landing ships all drawn up in a fleet,
and everybody watching. Each tank had a
crew of 6 and there were 25 tanks.
The first went down the landing planks
and sank, the second, the third, the
fourth, the fifth, the sixth went down
and sank. They weren’t supposed
to sink, the engineers had
made a mistake. The crews looked around
wildly for the order to quit,
but none came, and in the sight of
thousands of men, each 6 crewmen
saluted his officers, battened down
his hatch in turn, and drove into the
sea, and drowned, until all 25 tanks
were gone. did they have vacant
eyes, die laughing, or what? what
did they talk about, those men,
as the water came in?
was the general their lover?
Four
A Mock Interrogation
Have you ever held hands with a woman?
Yes, many times—women about to deliver, women about to
have breasts removed, wombs removed, miscarriages, women
having epileptic fits, having asthma, cancer, women having
breast bone marrow sucked out of them by nervous or in-
different interns, women with heart condition, who were
vomiting, overdosed, depressed, drunk, lonely to the point
of extinction: women who had been run over, beaten up.
deserted, starved. women who had been bitten by rats; and
women who were happy, who were celebrating, who were
dancing with me in large circles or alone, women who were
climbing mountains or up and down walls, or trucks or roofs
and needed a boost up, or I did; women who simply wanted
to hold my hand because they liked me, some women who
wanted to hold my hand because they liked me better than
anyone.
These were many women?
Yes. many.
What about kissing? Have you kissed any women?
I have kissed many women.
When was the first woman you kissed with serious feeling?
The first woman ever I kissed was Josie, who I had loved at
such a distance for months. Josie was not only beautiful,
she was tough and handsome too. Josie had black hair and
white teeth and strong brown muscles. Then she dropped
out of school unexplained. When she came she came
back for one day only, to finish the term, and there was a
child in her. She was all shame, pain, and defiance. Her eyes
were dark as the water under a bridge and no one would
talk to her, they laughed and threw things at her. In the
afternoon I walked across the front of the class and looked
deep into Josie’s eyes and I picked up her chin with my
hand, because I loved her, because nothing like her trouble
would ever happen to me, because I hated it that she was
pregnant and unhappy, and an outcast. We were thirteen.
You didn’t kiss her?
How does it feel to be thirteen and having a baby?
You didn’t actually kiss her?
Not in fact.
You have kissed other women?
Yes, many, some of the finest women I know, I have kissed.
women who were lonely, women I didn’t know and didn’t
want to, but kissed because that was a way to say yes we are
still alive and loveable, though separate, women who recog-
nized a loneliness in me, women who were hurt, I confess to
kissing the top a 55 year old woman’s head in the snow in
Boston, who was hurt more deeply that I have ever been
hurt, and I wanted her as a very few people have wanted
me—I wanted her and me to own and control and run the
city we lived in, to staff the hospital I know would mistreat
her, to drive the transportation system that had betrayed
her, to patrol the streets controlling the men who would
murder or disfigure or disrupt us, not accidentally with
machines, but on purpose, because we are not allowed out
on the street alone—
Have you ever committed any indecent acts with women?
Yes, many. I am guilty of allowing suicidal women to die
before my eyes or in my ears or under my hands because I
thought I could do nothing, I am guilty of leaving a prosti-
tute who held a knife to my friend’s throat to keep us from
leaving, because we would not sleep with her, we thought
she was old and fat and ugly; I am guilty of not loving her
who needed me; I regret all the women I have not slept with
or comforted, who pulled themselves away from me for lack
of something I had not the courage to fight for, for us, our
life, our planet, our city, our meat and potatoes, our love.
These are indecent acts, lacking courage, lacking a certain
fire behind the eyes, which is the symbol, the raised fist, the
sharing of resources, the resistance that tells death he will
starve for lack of the fat of us, our extra. Yes I have com-
mitted acts of indecency with women and most of them were
acts of omission. I regret them bitterly.
Five
Bless this day oh cat our house
“I was allowed to go
3 places growing up,” she said—
“3 places, no more.
there was a straight line from my house
to school, a straight line from my house
to church, a straight line from my house
to the corner store.”
her parents thought something might happen to her.
but nothing ever did.
my lovers teeth are white geese flying above me
my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands
we are the river of life and the fat of the land
death, do you tell me I cannot touch this woman?
if we use each other up
on each other
that’s a little bit less for you
a little bit less for you, ho
death, ho ho death.
Bless this day oh cat our house
help me be not such a mouse
death tells the woman to stay home
and then breaks in the window.
I read this somewhere, I wasn’t there:
In feudal Europe, if a woman committed adultery
her husband would sometimes tie her
down, catch a mouse and trap it
under a cup on her bare belly, until
it gnawed itself out, now are you
afraid of mice?
Six
Dressed as I am, a young man once called
me names in Spanish
a woman who talks to death
is a dirty traitor
inside a hamburger joint and
dressed as I am, a young man once called me
names in Spanish
then he called me queer and slugged me.
first I thought the ceiling had fallen down
but there was the counterman making a ham
sandwich, and there was I spread out on his
counter.
For God’s sake, I said when
I could talk, this guy is beating me up
can’t you call the police or something,
can’t you stop him? he looked up from
working on his sandwich, which was my
sandwich, I had ordered it. He liked
the way I looked. “There’s a pay phone
right across the street” he said.
I couldn’t listen to the Spanish language
for weeks afterward, without feeling the
most murderous of rages, the simple
association of one thing to another,
so damned simple.
The next day I went to the police station
to become an outraged citizen
Six big policemen stood in the hall,
all white and dressed as they do
they were well pleased with my story, pleased
at what had gotten beat out of me, so
I left them laughing, went home fast
and locked my door.
For several nights I fantasized the scene
again, this time grabbing a chair
and smashing it over the bastard’s head,
killing him. I called him a spic, and
killed him. My face healed, his didn’t
no child in me.
now when I remember I think:
maybe he was Josie’s baby.
all the chickens come home to roost.
all of them.
Seven
Death and disfiguration
One Christmas eve my lovers and I
we left the bar, driving home slow
there was a woman lying in the snow
by the side of the road. She was wearing
a bathrobe and no shoes, where were
her shoes? she had turned the snow
pink, under her feet, she was an Asian
woman, didn’t speak much English, but
she said a taxi driver beat her up
and raped her, throwing her out of his
care.
what on earth was she doing there
on a street she helped to pay for
but doesn’t own?
doesn’t she know to stay home?
I am a pervert, therefore I’ve learned
to keep my hands to myself in public
but I was so drunk that night,
I actually did something loving
I took her in my arms, this woman,
Until she could breathe right, and
my friends who are perverts too
they touched her toowe all touched her.
“You’re going to be all right”
we lied. She started to cry
“I’m 55 years old” she said
and that said everything.
Six big policemen answered the call
no child in them.
they seemed afraid to touch her,
then grabbed her like a corpse and heaved her
on their metal stretcher into the van,
crashing and clumsy.
She was more frightened than before.
they were cold and bored.
‘don’t leave me’ she said.
‘she’ll be all right’ they said.
we left, as we have left all of our lovers
as all lovers leave all lovers
much too soon to get the real loving done.
Eight
a mock interrogation
Why did you get in the cab with him, dressed as you are?
I wanted to go somewhere.
Did you know what the cab driver might do
if you got into the cab with him?
I just wanted to go somewhere.
How many times did you
get into the cab with him?
I dont remember.
If you dont remember, how do you know it happened to you?
Nine
Hey you death
ho and ho poor death
our lovers teeth are white geese flying above us
our lovers muscles are rope ladders under our hands
even though no women yet go down to the sea in ships
except in their dreams.
only the arrogant invent a quick and meaningful end
for themselves, of their own choosing.
everyone else knows how very slow it happens
how the woman’s existence bleeds out her years,
how the child shoots up at ten and is arrested and old
how the man carries a murderous shell within him
and passes it on.
we are the fat of the land, and
we all have our list of casualties
to my lovers I bequeath
the rest of my life
I want nothing left of me for you, ho death
except some fertilizer
for the next batch of us
who do not hold hands with you
who do not embrace you
who try not to work for you
or sacrifice themselves or trust
or believe you, ho ignorant
death, how do you know
we happened to you?
wherever our meat hangs on our own bones
for our own use
your pot is so empty
death, ho death
you shall be poor
Respond as usual then answer the questions.
Discussion Questions
“When I was praised for my conduct I felt guilt that in some way I was doing something that was really against the wishes of the white folks, that if they had understood they would have desired me to act just the opposite, that I should have been sulky and mean, and that that really would have been what they wanted, even though they were fooled and thought they wanted me to act as I did.”
From Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
29 comments:
Man Issues
A Woman is talking to death
Judy Grahn
Basic passage
"Two short cuts on his buttocks, that was the only mark except his thin white seminal tubes were all strung out behind; no child in him; and he looked asleep."
This passage stood out in my mind. I feel like here she is clearly showing signs of misandry. This man was exposed to the car, he was on a motorcycle so he had no outer protection, he should have been unrecognizable, yet all she wrote was that his testicles were blown apart. She previously mentioned a broken arm, but that was the only other harm done to him, yet he was in fact dead. How is it that the only part of his body that was harmed was his testicles, the one part of him that makes him a man.
The focus on this to me is misandric because it is what makes him a man, and she chooses to take that away from him.
Correlate
I can't correlate with this at all, however i can say that I have several times in my life wished this to happen to certain men. Well maybe not that bad but something close to it.
1). Identify the cause of human suffering- Tragedy
There are many different tragedies in this poem, first the man dieing on the bridge, then the man being beat on the bridge, and the woman being raped by the male taxi driver, so I would have to say the cause of suffering would be, for her, Men.
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
If she realized that not all men act that way.
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness-Comedy
She doesn't seem to have much happiness, she seems bitter.
Discussion Questions
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I can't Identify with her, I may have hated several men, but i have loved many more than I've hated, there are many more good men in the world than there are bad.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
She puts all men in one category, positions of power. There is a race issue in the front of the poem when she talks about the white cops beating the black driver who hit the motorcycle.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
It was a time when women were beginning to realize that they could make it without a man, they realized that they were just as important as men and began to become more assertive.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
She makes the victim appear to be a fault. She says the cops asked the girl how many times had she been in the cab, what was she thinking when she got in the cab. Making her feel like she did something wrong, as if she asked for it in some way.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
I think it would be worse to be limited due to race or gender, because you can always change your class, by working hard and extending skills you can't change your race or gender.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
No. there are people that hate men and are not lesbians.
Ashley’s Response
A Woman is talking to death
Judy Grahn
Basic passage
“I want nothing left of me for you, ho death except some fertilizer for the next batch of us who do not hold hands with you who do not embrace you who try not to work for you or sacrifice themselves or trust or believe you, ho ignorant death, do you we happened to you?”
In this passage “Death” seems to represent “men”. She seems to hate men but deeper down it appears she also hates anyone in power or anyone homophobic. The whole poem is about how she struggled as a lesbian… being kicked out of the air force, being misunderstood, being beaten… etc. These things were done to her by men. Of course she is going to hate them! She’s lesbian so its not like she has any emotional attachment to the gender.
Correlate
I find it hard to relate with her. I can kind of understand how women dislike men at times because they are naturally supposed to be in “power” and it just doesn’t seem fair. Especially in Grahn’s case when she sees all the men in power doing horrible things and abusing their “power” (beating the black man, cab driver raping the woman, etc).
1). Identify the cause of human suffering
I don’t think Grahn’s hatefulness to men is the main cause of human suffering… but the ordeals she had to go through that CAUSED her to hate men is the suffering.
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
If everyone was accepting in the story and nothing bad happened. But then it wouldn’t be the story it is.
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness.
I can’t think of one.
Discussion Questions
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
No, I don’t identify with the speaker. I don’t hate men at all. Then again I’ve never had a horrible experience with so many men like the speaker had. It’s hard to relate to something like that. But I guess its kind of like in the Invisible Man when the narrator feels like a spy amongst the white people because he acts nice to them. I guess if feminists view women that associate with men like spies… then it might be a ‘corrosive paradox’.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
She seems to associate certain races, gender, and classes with certain levels of power.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
Because women were starting to have a say… also because back then it wasn’t nearly as socially acceptable to be gay or lesbian.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
She is being asked questions about being lesbian and her answers are not conventional. She answers them like a normal person, regardless of sexual preference. She “disempowers” the expectations because her responses make her out to be a good, caring human being who cares for women in general.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
American Dream: an American social ideal that stresses egalitarianism and especially material prosperity; also : the prosperity or life that is the realization of this ideal.
Being limited by class. If your “limited” by class then you can’t go anywhere. This obviously isn’t ‘suppose’ to happen in America but in theory if it was restricted than not everyone would be able to have the American dream. Race or gender doesn’t limit the American Dream… not anymore.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
It matters in the poem because obviously that plays a part in her men-hating. If she hadn’t been a lesbian she wouldn’t have gone through some of the ordeals in her life that may have caused her to hate men, therefore perhaps not prompting her to write this poem.
Men Problems
A Woman Is Talking to Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passage:
“I want nothing left of me for you, ho death
except some fertilizer
for the next batch of us
who do not hold hands with you
who do not embrace you
who try not to work for you
or sacrifice themselves or trust
or believe you, ho ignorant
death, how do you know
we happened to you?”
In the passage that I picked I’m getting a feeling that she is using the word “death” to show how she feels about men. She really has some true hatred for men. The poem was published in 1974, and throughout the poem she talks about the horrible things that she went through and the hatred for men was her main focus. Grahn is a lesbian so I think that people during the time of the poem had a hard time excepting that and that made it even harder for her to be who she wants to be. It seems to me that she has had too many bad experiences with men that her hatred for them just keeps building.
I can’t relate with Grahn. I’m sure that there are women out there that feel the same way as she does. If some of the things that have happen to her had happened to me, I’m sure I would have the same hatred for men. I think that it is wrong for any man to lay a hand on a female.
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I can’t identify with the speaker. I can’t say that I have a man in mind that I hate, but there are the men out there that you hear about abusing their family and that make me hate men.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
I find that she is putting men in a category of have authority or power. She is using the race issue when she talks about the white cops and the driver.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
I think that it was published at an important time because it is when women were breaking away from having a man take care of them. Women were starting to realize that they could be more than a housewife.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
When she was getting beat and goes to the cops and they do nothing it makes her think that the man that did it could have been Josie’s baby.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The American dream: Is being able to doing anything you want anytime you want, and succeeding or failing is up to you.
I think that class would limit you to reaching the American dream. If you are limited by class you really can’t do anything.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
I don’t think that it matter because not all lesbians hate men and there are some women out there that are straight and hate men.
Passage:
”Bless this day oh cat our house
Help me be not such a mouse
Death tells the women to say home
And then breaks in the window”
In this passage the speaker seems like she is comparing death to “men”, and men are the enemies. I am not to sure what she really means when she says, “Bless this day oh cat our house”. I guess she is really talking to her cat, but when she said, “Help me be not such a mouse”, she means to help her not to be scared and innocent.
Correlation:
I can’t really relate to this passage because it is not really a passage to relate to unless you are a gender feminist. Only women with strong hate towards men will have this feeling. However, I do find it very interesting how the speaker puts this image on men that all men are bad people, and they will do you wrong when there is a chance. I agree that a lot of crime that happens in today’s world is done by men. However, you can’t be hypocritical; there are plenty of females out there doing just the same or even as worse that any guy can do. The only reason why more guys getting caught is because most of us do stupid things to get our selves caught. If any one ever listen to Dumb Crook News, on 96.1 the rocket they know what I am talking about.
1) Identify the cause of human suffering-Tragedy
There were a lot of tragedies:
• The man that was killed in the car accident
• The Asian girl that was rapped and left, etc…
2) How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
I don’t know how you could turn any of this into a comedy.
3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness- Comedy
There are no causes of joy or happiness.
Discussion Questions
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I see the idea that in the “Invisible Man”, where one class of people humiliates another for there on humor, such what happen in this poem. In the “Invisible Man”, a bunch of black boys were put into a ring to fight to show entertainment to the white class. In this poem Grahn went into the police station to tell her story about her getting beaten up and they wanted her to tell it again for there source of entertainment.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
Gender is human appearance that is another name for either male or female. Each one of those characteristics shows a level or certain power or importance to identifying someone.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
At this time women were important and treated almost as equal as men. Women started to have a say so on certain things.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
When she got beat up in the hamburger place by the Spanish guy and the next day when she went to the police station to tell her story all they did was laugh. She just remained calm and walked out laughing also instead of getting into it with the policemen.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The American dream is where a human being is able to do what ever her/or she wants to do to make there self better mentally or physically. By class because it would make your chances small to achieve your dream if your class is limited.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
It matters b/c if she wasn’t a lesbian then she may have learned to like men. Because she was a lesbian is the reason why she went through what she did.
Judy Grahn
"Uncontrolable"
Basic passage:
“I couldn’t listen to Spanish language for weeks afterward, without feeling the most murderous of rages, the simple association of one thing to another, so damned simple.”
“For several nights I fantasized the scene again, this time grabbing a chair and smashing it over the bastard’s head, killing him.
Correlation:
In this passage I feel the narrator is frustrated with the way her life seems to be falling into place. She was beaten up for no particular reason and no one tried to help or stop what was happening. I can relate to the actual feeling she may have had. Sometimes people or things can make one so upset that bad thoughts or dreams may appear. Even though one may not act upon the thoughts it can be something rather crucial that was fantasized. I do not think she was a hypocrite at all in this passage. I think it is only natural to want to hurt someone who hurt you to return the pain (well at least think about hurting someone who hurt you). Maybe it makes you a little more comfortable about things or cope with situation better.
Human Suffering –I think it is basically the whole story
Tragedy into Comedy –I do not think it could be a comedy
Joy or Happiness –None identified
Difficulties –None
REQUIRED QUESTIONS:
1) No, I can not quite identify with the speaker. I think there are some men in the world that hurts and disrespects family values, but all men are not the same.
2) She talks about all the men that obviously seem to have power and authority.
3) It was during the time where women were possibly feeling very independent and did not have to depend on men for everything.
4) She started blaming everybody else for the bad things that happened to them instead of the one who actually committed the crime.
5) I think gender and race is worse because that came from God and no man can change or make changes no matter how hard they try. Class can be changed it just really depends on the person or family and what that want to accomplish in life.
6) I do not think it matters. A person should be able to make their own decisions about life. People know right from wrong and whatever is chosen is only to be judged by the one person (God).
Problems with Men
A woman is talkilng to death
Judy Grahn
Basic passage
"I couldn't listen to the Spanish language for weeks afterward, without feeling the most murderous of rages, the simple association of one thing to another, so damned simple"
I think what Grahn is trying to say is that it was easy for her to hate spanish speaking people, because she was beatin up by a Spanish man. And that she wanted to murder him
Correlate
I could feel her pain. Because when someone does something to harm me. I really don't want to see anything that reminds me of them. I know that eventually I will have to let it go.
Identify the cause of human suffering? -Tragedy
Society as a whole, in this poem.
How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
I don't see the tragedy being turned into a comedy, because the crimes are so bad.
Identify the cause of joy and happiness?
There are none.
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
As a man, I do believe that a woman can hate all man, if something terrible was done to her by a particular man or lover. For example, in the invisible man, the stripper could hate all men, by the way the gentleman acted in the club towards her.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
The relationship is that a certain gender, race, and class has all the authority over others
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
This poem is important for its time, because activism and protest was a major part of america during the late 60's and early 70's. Lesbianism was more taboo back then than it is now
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
Her answers are not what you would expect to come from a lesbian. She doesn't give any erotic answers. Her answers are loving and caring
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The "American dream is idolized notion or standard that is acceptable by society.
It would be worst by race, because you can change your class by legally or illegally gaining weath and moving up the social ladder. But you can't change your race. Not even if you try to bleach your skin with chemicals like Michael Jackson.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
No, it shouldn't matter is Grahn is an lesbian. You don't have to be lesbian to hate men.
Power Struggle
Bio:
Judy Grahn was born in 1940 in Chicago. She is openly lesbian and has written many lesbian feminist works. She is the founder of the Women's Press Collective of Oakland. Grahn is a working class poet.
Basic Passage:
“I couldn’t listen to the Spanish language
for weeks afterward, without feeling the
most murderous of rages, the simple
association of one thing to another,
so damned simple.”
This passage is expressing the narrator’s feelings after she has been assaulted by a man who was Hispanic.
Correlation:
Many times when someone is attacked by a person of a different race, and then in turn hates the race itself. These victims don’t see it as a person of another race has just attacked them. They see it as the race itself attacking them. Then in turn they will hate that race.
1). Identify the cause of human suffering- Tragedy
This poem is full of tragedies, the main one being how the “white” man has all the power and anyone who does not fit this description is almost helpless. It is also a tragedy because how negative of a viewpoint of the world this is
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
If this poem was not such a dark look at the differences in class this might be a comedy. But looking at this story in a different way will not portray the message Grahn is trying to get across.
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness-Comedy
The “white” man who has all the power could see this as a comedy. But besides that this is basically the world being looked at in a dark way.
Difficulties:
This poem jumped around in a weird way.
1. I agree with Christina Hoff Sommers; hating someone is no way to become their equals or gain respect from them. Sometimes though it is necessary to take that extreme of a point of view to execute what is necessary. In the Invisible Man African Americans are not treated as equals, but hating the “white” will not change that.
2. The “white” man has all the power in this poem. Anyone who is a woman or the “black” man has no power or say so, what so ever.
3. This poem was important for its time, because it showed the power struggle going on at the time. Women, especially ones living alternative life styles, had very little respect and no power. This poem is not only for feminist, although on the surface that is what it seems like. This poem is important for its time because it points out all of the wrongdoings by the “white” man in the society, which is any man in power. This poem is like Invisible Man because at the time that was released, Ellison was trying to show the injustices of what was happening in the black community.
4. The cops ask if she has committed any indecent acts with women. Instead of her admitting all of the inappropriate things she has done with women, she turns the table. She says she is guilty of many things, but “most of them were acts of omission.” She basically describes all the things she has not done.
5. Being limited by class would be the worse way to not being able to obtain the “American Dream”. In my mind the American Dream is working hard, honestly, and ethically to reach a goal in life, especially a long term goal, such as the career and lifestyle one wants. Gender and race can both limit the ability to obtain the American Dream, but if one is born to the wrong class then it makes it that much harder to reach a dream that would probably require college or other things that would require support both mentally and monetarily.
6. I think it matters a small amount that Grahn is a lesbian; it is most likely the reason she takes this subject to heart the way she does. I do not think this should matter though, because the message is the right one.
Judy Grahn
A Woman Is Talking to Death
Basic Passage
"they don't have to lynch the women very much anymore, although they used to-the lord and his men went through the villages at night, beating & killing every woman caught outdoors."
In this passage I see misandry. Grahn is using this passage to remind people that women were mistreated in the past and it will keep happening if women do not stand up for themselves, although women do have more protection and rights than they did in this passage.
Correlate
Women do get mistreated sometimes, but so do most other people of all sexes and races and religions at some point in time or one way or another. I don't agree with Grahn because every one has hard times and we could bitch about it and blame it on some one or we can fight for what is right and overcome the hard times as group of people and not just women.
Tragedy-- The tragedy is how so many people are hurt and killed.
How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy? It could be turned into a comedy if people would be able to overcome the hate.
Comedy-- No comedy.
Difficulties-- "my lovers teeth are white geese flying above me
my lovers muscles are rope ladders under my hands" I'm not sure what this means.
Discussion Questions
1. In this poem I see how a women can denigration other women. I see this because not all men are the way she described them in the poem and there are some women who would not think twice about selling another woman out if she would profit from it. It is a human trait not a gender trait.
2. I think there relationship is a relationship with power along with gender and class, but I think it is mostly power because in the poem it is alway the cops are the general or someone stronger who is alway hurting someone.
3. A Woman Talking to Death is important for its' time because in 1974 women were trying to find their place in a world that had been dominated by men.
4. She did not answer the questions the way that was expected in the segment A Mock Interrogation. She answer in a way of feelings and not a physical way that was expected which "disempowered" the interrogation.
5. The American dream is to succeed and be happy and to be limited any of these thing which cannot be changed (except for class which is sometimes extremely had to change) would be unacceptable, although it does happen.
6. It doesn't matter that she is a lesbian because in spite of that she is a person first.
Soul turned Cold
A Woman is talking to Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passage
"I want nothing left of me for you, ho death
except some fertilizer
for the next batch of us
who do not hold hands with you
who do not embrace you
who try not to work for you
or sacrifice themselves or trust
or believe yo, ho ignorant
death, how do you know
we happened to you?"
In this passage, Grahn shows the way that men treat women from generation to generation and it will never stop. She want to give them nothing of herself.
Correlation:
Even though I am not a lesbeian. I can understand what she is trying to convey. I have been in many relationships that have made me so cold that I do not want to give, trust, or even work with death. It puts you in a place that you do not want to give to anyone.
1. Identify the cause of human suffering- Tragedy
The tragedy in this is that she has been put down so much that I don't think that she will ever become not so bitter towards men.
2. How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
To laugh. Everyone is a human no matter what gender.
3. Identify the cause of joy or happiness-Comedy
Even though she is bitter, she seems to be sure of herself.
Discussion Questions
“When I was praised for my conduct I felt guilt that in some way I was doing something that was really against the wishes of the white folks, that if they had understood they would have desired me to act just the opposite, that I should have been sulky and mean, and that that really would have been what they wanted, even though they were fooled and thought they wanted me to act as I did.”
From Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I am a little bitter towards men, but I have to tell myself that I am the common denominator. Just like in Fences, do we make our own future? I think that we do. We pick what we think that we want.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
I saw that she thinks that each gender stands behind that gender whether it is right or wrong. Just as when the police beat down the motorist or even when she was in the military.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
In 1974, Women's rights were just coming to a head and the sexual revolution was just starting and not to mention the clash of the two major races in the US.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
She starts questioning him about the way that he loves a woman and that it is no different from her and when he starts to think about it from an other view it takes some of the power away.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The "American dream". To be accepted by society. I think that every one is limited by class, race, and gender.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
The only reason that it would or should is because of her views and bitterness towards men, but I do know many women that are lesbians and are not bitter towards men. So, I would say , No.
A Woman is Talking To Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passsage
"Bless this day oh cat our house, help me be not such a mouse, death tells the woman to stay at home, and then breaks the window"
This passsage shows the author's hatred towards men. She is portraying the fact that women are suppose to have this "conservative" image and al be at home "moms". She also, shows the fact that women are "soft and emotional" and men are so strong and "rough". Death definitely stands for "men" and the fact that women are treated unfairly. By exclaiming that Death then "breaks the window" she is really showing the fact that men are so angry and use violence to solve their problems.
Correlate:
I, myself dont really agree with this passage, but can however understand her idea. Men are identified as "strong " and women are "soft" and an emotional roller coaster of feelings. I, truly believe , society did not make this impact, this is how we were created. Although there are some severe sexist men that exist and are all about "men are better, women need to stay at home". When in reality, some of the most successful people have been women. Men, however play a key role in society and are very successful, as well. We need both women and men to make society function properly.
1. Identify the cause of human suffering.
The tragedy, as a whole, in this poem, is the anger the author has built up towards men.
2. How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
If the author ended up seeing her need for men.
3. Identify the cause of joy or happiness? I feel like there is no happiness in this poem.
Discussion Questions
1. Do you identify with the speaker or not? Reference ideas form the invisible man/fences.
I do not, myself identify with the speaker because I believe that men are suppose to be a leader in any relationship. Whether it be a father/daughter or a husband/ wife, a man is suppose to do all the hard work and open the ladies doors and carry things for them, although I feel like today's society has forgotten this. In Fences, the underlying theme is the same, as a whole, clearly the author has buit many emotional and physical fences between men.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race,and class in this poem? You will need to know the definition of gender to answer this.
The author does not portray the difference between the three in this poem. I feel like thats why there is so much hostility towards men because she makes the gender, race and class all three the same. She doesnt show many racial or class favoritism, but she does show that men are very degrading to women.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for it's time, in the way invisible man was for it's time? The time shows alot for this poem. Woemn were just now starting to become other things, besides house women and sometimes treted poorly, so I can understand why she would have been so hurt and felt degraded. Alot like during the time of invisible man, blacks were treted horrible by whites which triggered the "invisible" man's feelings of fear during that time.
4. How does Grahn reverse and "disempower" conventional expectations in the segment a mock interogation?
she makes the victim seem like it was her fault, just to exemplify the fact of how women feared men. It was as if the women felt guilty for getting in the cab, like she deserved it because she should have known better than to get in a man's cab. The police made it seem as if it was her fault, because of the questions they asked her.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the " American dream" being limited by class, by race or gender? Define the American Dream.
All of them are wrong, simply because the american dream says that " all men and women are creted equal" so that covers no matter what gender, race or class your in, we are all in this life together.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is a lesbian? Should it matter? If it does why?
It doesnt matter, overall the fact that Grahn is a lesbian, but it does give her favoritism for women and even making herself believe lies about women, simply because she doesnt love men. It can even make her anger fuel even more, so she takes it out in men, just simply because society says it's wrong to be gay.
Dislike
A Woman talking to Death
Judy Grahn
Judy Grahn is a poet. Grahn is a feminist and a lesbian. She wrote the poem “A Woman talking to Death” in 1974.
Basic Passage
“Six big policemen answered the call
no child in them.
they seemed afraid of her,
then grabbed her like a corpse and heaved her
on their metal stretcher into the van,
crashing and clumsy.
She was more frightened than before.
they were cold and bored.”
In this passage, Grahn is describing how the six male policemen treated a rape victim. Grahn’s dislike of men is evident in this passage. This passage shows how Grahn perceives men as being cruel, un nurturing and apathetic.
Correlation
I can’t relate to Grahn at all because I’m not a lesbian. However, it is evident from the poem that Grahn truly dislikes men. It seems that Grahn’s unfortunate encounters with men have left lasting impressions on her and her dislike of men continues to grow.
(1). Identify the cause of human suffering-Tragedy
In the poem, there are a lot of tragedies, such as the man being killed in the car accident, the driver who was beaten by the police, and Grahn being beaten by a man. One cause of human suffering seems to be Grahn’s growing dislike of men because of the bad encounters she had with them. The other cause is the way society treated Grahn because she is a lesbian.
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
The tragedy could be turned into a comedy if people understood and accepted Grahn for the person she is and if no one was killed or brutally beaten; and if Grahn learned not to hate men so much.
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness- Comedy
There is no joy or happiness.
Respond as usual then answer the questions.
Discussion Questions
“When I was praised for my conduct I felt guilt that in some way I was doing something that was really against the wishes of the white folks, that if they had understood they would have desired me to act just the opposite, that I should have been sulky and mean, and that that really would have been what they wanted, even though they were fooled and thought they wanted me to act as I did.”
From Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I do see the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity in “A Woman is talking to Death.” This concept is evident in segment three “This woman is a lesbian be careful.” In this segment, Grahn is describing how unfairly she was treated when she was in the military. This concept is also evident in Ralph Ellison’s “Invisible Man” when the men were blindfolded and forced to go into the ring to fight each other.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
Grahn seems to imply that class, race, and gender are connected to certain types of authority figures.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
At this time, women gained their voice; becoming self-sufficient.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
Grahn didn’t let the “interrogator” upset her; she answered the questions truthfully and she kept her cool.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The “American dream” deals with the promise of equality, financial success, and happiness. I think being limited by race or by gender might be considered worse because it seems better to be accepted because you worked hard to acquire a certain class status; not to be accepted solely based on race or gender.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
No, it doesn’t matter that Grahn is a lesbian because there are women who aren’t lesbians that dislike men for some reason or another.
I am commenting on almond joy's response:
I agree with almond joy's response. Just like almond joy, I also find the way that Grahn personifies men as being these cruel people intriguing.I agree with almond joy's statements that we shouldn't be "hypocritical of all men" just because some of them are criminals; also as almond joy says we got to remember that there are also are some women who are just as bad as some men.
Mind Reader
Judy Grahn
A Woman Is Talking To Death
Basic Passage:
Why did you get in the cab with him, dressed as you are?
I wanted to go somewhere.
Did you know what the cab driver might do if you got into the cab with him?
I just wanted to go somewhere.
Correlate:
The police are interrogating this woman who has just been raped and they treat her as if the crime is all her fault because she went out in public wearing a bathrobe. I think that some people still believe that rape is the victim’s fault because of what the victim is wearing or location in which the crime occurred.
1). Identify the cause of human suffering
The tragedy is that the narrator has witnessed certain situations that cause her to have a skewed opinion of all men.
2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy?
I don’t think it can because the situations that the narrator experienced happen in real life and will likely change the opinions of someone else.
3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness.
None
Discussion Questions
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I don’t identify with the narrator but I understand why she feels that way. Her beliefs are based on her experience just like Troy’s beliefs in fences. Troy didn’t trust white people and didn’t expect them to change. Just because you experience something happen in a certain over and over again doesn’t mean the cycle will continue forever.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
It’s all about having control. She associates being a male to being the dominating sex or being in control, women are at the mercy of the men. Minorities are controlled by the majority and lower class is controlled by the upper class.
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
This is the time when women are starting to show that they can be equal to or better than men in society. They didn’t stay home and take care of kids anymore.
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
The interrogator expects her answers to condemn her but they actually show that she is innocent and caring.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
I think the American dream is moving up to a higher social class than the class you were born into. I think being a woman is a mild hurdle but being a minority is a major restriction.
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
I don’t think that it matters because anybody regardless of sexual preference could have these experiences and change their view of men. Naturally people learn by experience.
Comment to Joders:
I agree with you in that it is just the way that men and women are created. Men are just naturally the stronger gender.
Comment to jodgers
I agree with you that society needs both men and women to function properly. Without one it would be total chaos because each person has an distinct place in society
only men
A women is talking to Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passage:
“I want nothing left of me for you, ho death except some fertilizer for the next batch of us
who do not hold hands with you
who do not embrace you
who try not to work for you
or sacrifice themselves or trust
or believe you, ho ignorant
death, how do you know
we happened to you?”
In this passage her series of bad events with men has lead to her total hatred of the sex all together. She hates the fact that they get power just for being a man. And just because of her sexual preferance she has enduroed a life of struggle and pain due to the way society was back then.
Correlation
I can relate to herbecause I too have never meet an honest man. For me it starts with my dead beat dad and just follows a paith of constant lies and betrail. As much as I would like to defined the male gender I feel that women are way more intune with the enter self.
1). Identify the cause of human suffering- Tragedy In her case all men cause her to suffer
(2). How can the tragedy be turned into a comedy? If she ran into a graet guy and had a change of heart
(3). Identify the cause of joy or happiness-Comedy none
Disscusion
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences.
I can identify with her a most levels because I too have had so shit for boyfriends but there was a few that actually had a heart. sO i THINK A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU COME INTO A RELATIONSHIP AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU BRING THE OLD BAGGAGE WITH YOU.
2. What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender. sHE PUTS ALL MEN IN THE SAME GROUP AND SHE ONLY TOUD=CHES ON THE RACE ISSUE AT THE BEGINIGN
3. The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
iTS THE PIONT IN TIME WHEN WOMEN BEGIN TO THINK FOR THEM SELFS .
4. How does Grahn reverse and “disempower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
HE MAKES HER FEEL AS THOUGHT SHE WAS IN THE WRONG WHEN IN REALITY SHE WAS THE VICTUM.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
American dream short version is that if you work hard and act proper you can succeed in life.
I feel it WOULD BE WORST TO BE LIMITED BY RACE OR GENDER BECAUSE YOU CAN NOW MOVE UP IN THE CLASS DEPARTMENT BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME RACE AND GENDER
6. Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
OF coures it matters that plays a major part in he man hating. It also plays a major role in how people of that time trated her.
Comment for Nicken
I can relate to wishing bad on the ones that have hurt you. well at first then the pain subsides and you are a stronger wiser person for it.
commenting on Soupbone4
I agree with you no man should ever harm a woman. And obviously her anger comes from the pain that has been inflicted on her by men. She has been hurt by so many different men, that it has become easy for her to judge them all as one.
In response to Almond Joy
However, you can’t be hypocritical; there are plenty of females out there doing just the same or even as worse that any guy can do. The only reason why more guys getting caught is because most of us do stupid things to get our selves caught.
I don't really think that's true. Statistically, most crime IS committed by men. You don't see many women raping people or breaking in peoples houses simply because most women are of a naturally more milder nature and just not as strong. It seems like your kind of agreeing with Grahn because your saying men are stupid because they get caught... kind of hypocritical in itself.
In Response to RANDY...
I totally agree with you when you say that if we all complained about someone of a particular, class, race, or gender we would all be complaining. As a society, we are all a bunch of imperfect people trying to live this life together. We are all in this world together and should just accept the fact that we are all DIFFERENT, which make sour world go round.
Comment for nicken:
I agree with you that from the passage that you picked shows a sign of misandry. She is focusing on the part that makes him a man, and I’m sure that she is happy to let us know that his manhood was destroyed.
Response to jodgers:
I agree when you said,"We need both women and men to make society function properly." Both men and women are important in there own way. If we had just male or just female in the world, I strongly believe that we would distroy one another. We need both to balance out society today.
Comment on randy:
I agree with your response. Everybody gets hurt in some kind of way. I feel some may not be able to deal with the pain without bitching about the actual fact of the matter, but you right we could overcome the hard times if everybody could stick together. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world so let’s just hope that the strong people stay strong so they can try to help the weak ones.
In response to nicken
I agree with you that she is showing signs of misandry. This man was hit yb the car, but all she wrote was about his testicles being blown apart. She chose to write about the demasculity of this man.
A Woman is Talking To Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passage
Death sits on my doorstep cleaning his revolver death cripples my feet and sends me out to wait for the bus alone, then comes by driving a taxi.
this passage was interesting becuase its seems like she is having a battle with a man that is actually there or a man that appears in her mind. Death who ever it is, is seems to have a hold on her life and is forcing her into these thoughts.
Correlation
I didn't quite understand what she was trying to say in this passage. it was hard to respond on a personal level as to how this may relate to me. But it seem to me that she has alot of built up frustration inside.
Identify the cause of Human Suffering
Her being a woman has had its difficulties for her but being a lesbian in a male dominated society affected her even more.
How can tradegy be turned into comedy?
If she would understand that women have rights just as men do and that the world is not out to get her.
"Umm..Women"
A Woman Is Talking To Death
Judy Grahn
Basic Passage
“For several nights I fantasized the scene again, this time grabbing a chair and smashing it over the bastard’s head, killing him.
Correlate:
I think that this passage shows her is as a man and not a child. She is angry about the Spanish guy and now she is ready to kill. He did not even take her life but now she is ready to kill. Obliviously she has some serious cognitive problems. I have had fights in my life but never beat up but I personally never fantasized about killing anyone.
1)Identify the cause of suffering:
The cause of suffering in this passage is her hatred for men. There for she sees evil in all that men do.
2)This poem could be turned into a comedy by the woman giving her life to God and taking a husband.
3) Identify the cause of happiness or joy. I don't think there is a cause of happiness. Every thing that I read was filled with anger and despair.
Discussion:
1. In the quote above, the narrator alludes to the concept that when one in power denigrates another, that person also denigrates his or her own humanity. Do you see such a concept in “A Woman is Talking to Death” or do you see what feminist critic Christina Hoff Sommers calls the ‘corrosive paradox’ of feminism: waging war on men while at the same time denigrating the women who respect those men? Another way to put this question is thus: do you identify with the speaker or not? Explain your answer and include references to the Invisible Man and/or Fences
I think the woman does not respect men at all and is down right angry at them. She does not even respect the women that are with men because of her distorted views. She is blind to see that there are good people in the world and a lot of them are men.
2)What is the relationship between gender, race and class in this poem? In order to answer this question you will need to know the definition of gender.
Gender is the the sum of roles that men and women are given by society.
Gender is the whole problem in this poem. She is being persecuted by society because she likes women. In our society their are a lot of people that don't like that.
3) The poem was published in 1974. What makes it important for its time, in the way Invisible Man was important for its time?
This poem is stands out because it shows women expressing there sexuality. Womens sexuality throughout history has been suppressed and this is women coming out. People are still not ready to acknowledge homosexual relationships.
4)How does Grahn reverse and “dis empower” conventional expectations in the segment A Mock Interrogation?
She does this by showing police make the victim out as the perpetrator. She single handedly scrutinizes the justice system.
5. Which might be considered worse in terms of the “American Dream”: being limited by class, by race or by gender? In order to answer this question, you’ll need to define the “American dream.”
The American dream is defined as success and wealth. To me to be limited by race would have to be the worst thing ever. You can not chose the color that you are born but you have some control over the class you belong to.
6) Does it matter that Grahn is Lesbian? Should it matter? If it does, then why?
I do think it matters because if she didn't hate men she wouldn't have a negative image of them. I mean through whole poem she is men bashing.
Comment on "the Truth"
I agree with these thoughts because I to believe the death is personified and is given human characteristics. It seems like death is really in her room and is waiting to kill her. This show the women being here again victimized by masculine figure.
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